Interview with Babybanshee: Part 1

Part of the "VR is Alive" Artist Spotlight Series, Season Two

ArmaniXR and Babybanshee chat in a world with virtual desserts.

ArmaniXR

: First I just want to let you introduce yourself including your pronouns and what you want the audience to know about you.

Babybanshee: Yeah. So I go by Babybanshee (or bvbybanshee, mostly just Banshee), I go by any pronouns, but one people usually use for me is she or they/them. I've been creating avatars, and I've been on VRChat since about 2019, and been making avatars since 2020. I have a Discord server dedicated to all of my works. I started creating assets because I didn't see a lot of assets that are made for people like me, so I wanted to contribute to that and I've been liking it so far.

Can you tell me about your introduction to and earliest memory of social VR?

My introduction to social VR was...I don't know…let me think about how I got into it. I guess one day I wanted to get a headset because I thought it looked kind of cool and I thought of VRChat as an option. I kind of just wanted to play it. So I just got an Oculus Rift S. That was so many years ago because you don't even see the Rift anymore…but I got a Rift S, hooked it up to my computer, and I just started playing. I was really into the club scene back then, was really into more of the rave club scene and that's how I spent most of my early VR time. Going from club to club, hanging out with people, socializing. It was a great way for me to socialize without any kind of social pressure.

When did you start making avatars and what inspired you to start on this journey making them for people to enjoy?

I had a TikTok account that was pretty popular back in the day with over 17,000 followers on it. I made a series for looking for Black avatars because there was like a kind of a gap when it came to Black avatars back when I played. People didn't know where to find them, people didn't know where to get them, so I made a series not only showcasing where you can get free public Black avatars but also avatar creators who had darker skin toggles because you didn't see that a lot back then either. It was usually such a perk that usually when you go to avatar creators and ask them if they can like make an avatar in darker skin they either tell you to like do it yourself or that they don't offer that. So I tried to search out people who actually put the effort to make sure their avatars were diverse and people who put the effort to make sure that it was accessible by making it public as well. That was a very popular series of mine.

I also like did little jokes on my TikTok account as well, same as my name, BabyBansheeVR, and that's mostly how I got into it at first. Then I also started seeing the gaps…they make dark avatars, that's fine, but you don't see Black features on these avatars. When you had these avatars it seemed like they just put dark brown paint over it and that's it. I wanted to see avatars with features more like mine, like Black hairstyles, a Black ethnic-type nose, ethnic lips, and things like that. You'll see them from time to time but you wouldn't see them the way they're kind of made legitimately, if that makes sense. So I decided to just give it a go, see what I can do. I actually started on VRoid, then making it the traditional way, and I just started making avatars.

Babybanshee’s first world built for avatar selection in VRChat.

Oh yeah, that's interesting. I'm curious too for people who are new to VRoid. VRoid is like…I guess what platform is that on? Or is it software on PC?

It's software on PC. It's what a lot of people use to make their first VTuber. It's a free program where they give you a base and you can make clothes for it as well and people sell clothes and assets for it. Very similar to how the VRChat avatars are, but you kind of have more freedom with VRoid because they give you a lot of things up front for you to use and for you to be using for free. They give you a lot of stuff up front and you can also make your own stuff within VRoid. It was a very simple program with an anime style character and you can export it into Blender and then make it your either VTuber or into an avatar.

Let’s go to my first avatar world. My first avatar is not there, but I do want to talk about some of the early stuff I did in there.

What do you enjoy the most about avatars in social VR?

I like creating something from nothing, having an idea, and just figuring out how I'm going to do it, and then just experimenting as much as I can't see the best way to do it. Sometimes I do think that trial and error way does kind of get me in trouble sometimes because I don't end up remembering how I do things and end up doing things in crazy kind of ways, but I think the journey from thinking of wanting to create something and then actually creating it, it feels very nice. I do really like the reception that I get from these a lot. I get people saying, thank you, this hair looks just like mine, thank you, this avatar looks just like me, and it really kind of warms my heart when people say that because I feel like I'm doing good or doing this for a reason, if that makes sense. I feel really good about that.

Not every platform has fully customizable avatars, can you explain how important that is to someone who’s new to social VR?

When you start VR, there's a feeling of uncomfortableness that comes from being in a virtual setting and not in a real place. I think having an avatar that looks like you is a great way to keep people grounded, keep them present, and keep them coming back for more. Without customizable avatars, you can't look like yourself or at least resemble who you want to be, which makes things a little boring. Everyone looks the same, and who wants to be in a world where everyone looks the same? It's just not something people want. Being able to customize your avatar, be who you want to be, or even be someone completely different is really important because people make social VR; it's the people. If people are not comfortable or happy with how they look in VR, they won't find a reason to stay, and they won't want to play anymore. So I always approach VR with a people-first perspective because they make the game, they're making everything, and if they don't have the chance for customization, there's no chance for growth in social VR at all.

What is the state of avatars in terms of human representation like skin color and hair type and more? Has that improved for everyone?

The state of avatars definitely progressed. To me, when I first got into VR, it was so surprising how people were adamant in not making darker skinned avatars or avatars that represent more than just East Asian or White. You wouldn't think that you’d see that kind of thing in 2019, but it was there, and we definitely progressed since then. There's definitely more people making darker skinned avatars, but it's kind of progressed into a state where it's seen as a feature and not as a given. People will say in their avatar store page that they present POC skin as a feature, and I don't think that should be something that's presented as a feature. It should be something that's given.

I'm not saying everybody has to do that… People can do what they want at the end of the day. They don't have to cater to anybody, but if you are trying to celebrate diversity in VR, you should be more careful about things like your wording of certain things and things of how you're presenting your avatar. Even though we are starting to get more dark skinned avatars, you don't see a lot of ethnic hair at all. Even me, I'm slow coming to this. It takes me a while to get up, I guess, the energy to even make hair, and these, they took me a while. I actually did most of these this year. Yeah, I actually did most of these this year. I started getting really into making hair this year. This one I actually did last year and redid it, but all of these I made this year, I started by doing a hair series on Black History Month and then continued to just keep making hair, and 90% of these are free or available for free. You either have to join my server to get it for free or it's completely free because I want people to have more access to Black hair or ethnic-looking hair.

Babybanshee’s avatar asset displays for Black and ethnic hair.

You don't see a lot of ethnic hair in VRChat unless they're taken from The Sims or from IMVU. You see a lot of that. You don't see any hair that's actually made for VRChat. There is a creator who... I'm not sure what her ethnicity is, but was making a good portion of Black hair for the longest time named Bonisu. An amazing creator, very talented, and was also giving this hair up for free! She would make braids, make locs, and was really inspirational for me when I was releasing my hair as well. But overall it's getting into a better state. We're getting more creators who are Black who are also creating to cater to a certain culture, which I think is great, and we're getting more creators who are not just Black but Vietnamese or Latino or even from other places making things to celebrate their culture, which I think is the right direction.

A lot of avatars these days are very complicated. I guess you could say very technical now, but they're not doing the basics to make as many people feel seen as possible, if that makes sense. People sometimes don't feel seen when it comes to avatar creation, and they have to edit the avatars themselves in order to feel seen. I don't think we should be in that kind of state in 2024. We should be a little more progressive, in my opinion. I'm trying to fill that gap on my own, and I'm really trying my best, because I also have a full-time job while doing this, which is a lot sometimes. I'm not sure where the trajectory is going to go when it comes to avatar creating. It's so much more accessible now, but people are sometimes still stuck in their old ways. There's a lot of sense, especially in the evolution. There should be less friction with customizing avatars and having representative avatars.

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Read Part 2 of this interview series here!

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