Interview with K0ya: Part 2
Part of the "VR is Alive" Spotlight Series, Season Two
Content Warning: Racism, Strong Language, and some Adult Themes
ArmaniXR: For the second part of this interview I am fortunate to continue chatting with K0ya about her experience in the Black social VR community and using full-body tracking…
ArmaniXR: Can you tell me more about your experience as a Black woman in social VR? What do you enjoy the most about it and what do you think could be better about it?
I mean, my experience when I first started off is how you just go into these random public lobbies and you hear all these White people everywhere and then they love to call us “n—ers”. As soon as we join, you know, that's the first thing some of them say. So I'm more of a private lobby type of person. I don't really hang out in public worlds, just Friends+ instances. Public worlds are not my thing because that's what we have to deal with. I feel like these type of spaces should be 18+ for sure. An age restriction, I think, could be better. I wish there was a deeper sense of community, a deeper sense of Black community in this space.
But to be honest, there's nothing I would really change because this is new for me too. I enjoy...this is a hobby for me. I just be in here kickin’ it. I don't really have too many complaints. There is racism, but you ain't ever gonna stop them anywhere. It's everywhere. Never gonna stop that. I wish there were more Black-influenced worlds and Black culture. Funnily enough, I felt like I saw that more in AltspaceVR, at least with themed events. I've only really been in VRChat. I mean…I've been in other spaces briefly, but VRChat is the best. It’s just better here. Now, Chillout VR is pretty dope. But all my friends are here.
How much have Black avatars become more representative and accessible for Black social VR users? How much more would you want to see?
I will say it took some years from when I joined. It took a long time for me to see more Black avatars, but I feel like there were more Black female avatars, way more for females than they were for men. Men, to me, have a harder time finding avatars, especially Black men compared to women. Definitely a long way to go, but it's definitely come a long way from when I first started. I've met more Black creators. Banshee, she's venturing out into making more men because there's an abundance of females. You're always going to find, and really the guys say all the time, that the female avatars are better than the male avatars because they have more toggles, more things, more menu swaps...we have a lot more on our avatars than a lot of the male avatars, but there's a lot of avatar creators that aren't comfortable with men or creating male avatars.
I don't know how hard it is to make a male avatar, but I guess it's pretty hard because there's only a handful of people who really make these Black men out there. BenBluntx, he's a Black male avatar creator and I like his avatars. Banshee made her first male avatar. Hayweee has some nice Black male avatars. Who else? Marcoo put some skin swaps on his, Dayko makes some, I don't know, there's some people that's out here really putting on for the Black folks now.1 We are seeing more inclusion, but I feel like I had to scream about that because when I was a Questie, I was meeting avatar creators too. They would have me try on their avatars and ask me how I liked it…but it would be White. And I told them, well, I don't like it, I'm not White. It's like, I'm Black and I don't want to be White in here. I don't like your avatar. So I started seeing more Black avatars, but then it was only one shade of skin, only one Black skin. And like I told you earlier, that shit be looking like clay or it'd be ashy looking. It just wouldn't be good…like they just put a brown texture on it and called it a day. That's what we had back then.
But hell, it's on the avatar creators! It’s hard, but I kind of feel like it's simple too, especially for these White creators that dominate the VRChat avatar scene. It's not that hard to put a skin slider or different skin shaders on your avatar. Why do you figure people just want to be White? Or these big creators out here, they'll sell these avatars with only White skin and then tell you as a consumer that you got to put the Black skin on yourself. First, if I'm buying this, it should have more than one skin tone. And for somebody like me, I don't even know how to upload a fucking avatar. What do you mean I have to make it Black myself? I got to download Unity and Blender or whatever, and learn how to do avatars myself, just so I can be Black in VR? When you literally have the ability to make shaders on here, that doesn't make any sense. I think that's really lazy. It's inconsiderate as fuck and racist as hell.
Some of the very few Black avatar creators that we do have, they'll create avatars with no skin swaps. They'll be White and they'll put it out there for sale. I got into it with one of my…he was one of my friends and it's so upsetting. We were friends for years before he even started making avatars. And I asked him: Are you going to put some Black skin tones on your avatars? He started to do it. But then he went back and started not doing it. I was purchasing some of his avatars and he gave me a good amount for free because we were friends or whatever. He had another one that I wanted to purchase, but he told me that I had to make it Black. Do it myself. And you're a Black avatar creator. You made this avatar! I talk to you about this all the time. What do you mean do it myself? If I'm buying it, it should be there. It's not hard to do. Why is that not just the automatic given option? Not everyone on here is pasty White. There's different shades on this game. Who wants to be White? And who wants to purchase the avatar that's White only? I'm thankful for where we are now, but there's definitely more to do. But I'm not a creator. So for all the creators, please add skin shaders on your avatars. That's all you got to do.
For people who aren’t in social VR, can you describe what FBT is and how you have experienced FBT yourself? [VIDEO]
For the people that aren’t in here, full-body tracking (FBT) is pretty much where you have these things on different parts of your body tracking your every movement. I have a tracker on my ankle, so you can see me literally kicking my foot up in the air. But you can only do that with full-body tracking. If I was… Y’all can’t see Armani, but Armani’s half-body. So Armani, he has control of his head, and he has control of his hands. But he can’t move, he doesn’t have control of his legs. So he can only do what the avatar and GoGo Loco, which is on avatars, allows him to do, like seated positions, laying positions, whatever. And he can walk, yeah, but when he walks, it’s gonna be the avatar walking. It’s not gonna be like when people with full-body walk, where we can walk across our room. Yeah, our legs are gonna move, but you don’t see our, when we use our joystick to move, you don’t see our legs move. But that’s not really important. Either way it goes, for full-body, you need a tracker. I got a tracker on my waist, and I have a tracker on each of my ankles. So it just tracks all my movement. I’ve been full-body for about a year now. I’m kind of newer because I started off as Quest-standalone for a year before then. Then I was PC Quest for damn-near a whole ‘nother year. For me, you know, I saw how much it cost and I was like, what the hell I need to buy this for? But eventually after a while I thought: Let me just see what it's about. And it definitely changes your experience. It's also weird because it's like some hierarchy here. I have full-body, but you mainly see dancers with full-body. If you see somebody with full-body here, nine times out of 10, they're a dancer. I'm not a dancer. I can't dance, you know? But I'm here wit’ it.
If someone wanted to experience what VR was like, I would never tell someone to just spend that amount of money for FBT just straight off the beginning. I would just say, especially if they're a PC player, they can come check out some worlds on desktop at first if they want to. But I would tell anyone to start off with a headset first just so they can get the feel of what it's about before they go off into venturing and buying everything else. ‘Cause if you tell somebody…let's say they get into VR for the first time and they just automatically…let's say they do it big and they just buy everything. I'm pretty sure they're going to have a good experience, but shit, it's going to be a pain in the ass trying to piece that stuff together. And then full-body doesn't work with every single game that is virtual reality. So it just depends on what you want to do. It's worth the experience though. It is worth the try. If you’re just first getting into VR, get you a headset first and see how you feel.
But in here? They treat full-body like it's some type of hierarchy. For real, for real, it's like a totem pole or something. For our Questie-besties that are Quest-standalone, it's like they’re below the people who are just on desktop with no hands at all. That’s only because the people on desktop are a PC player so they can still go and see different things that somebody on a Quest standalone can't see.
Do you feel like more of yourself or a different person in FBT?
I know how to answer that, but I don't know. I feel like myself in this anyway, because the movements that I'm doing in here are what I'm doing in physical reality. I’m literally in my room doing this. When it comes to the avatar, this is a bad bitch. I just feel like a bad bitch for real. Not saying that I'm not a bad bitch IRL, but you know, you come in here with this on and you just feel like a badder bitch. Because you're here in this avatar. This ain’t…this ain't me. It's a badass avatar though. So I feel good, but for me it doesn't get to my head like outside of this. I'm a real person. This is me inside and outside this game. Except for when it comes to party hosting. I'm not a party host in real life. But as far as my demeanor, how I talk, and who I am as a person, this is me. I'm not one of those people who has two different lifestyles in here and outside of here.
Can you describe what the FBT community is in VRChat? How have Black FBT users and performers existed in this community and for how long?
They were here for sure. When I first saw them here, I definitely saw, Black people with full body tracking here. They're definitely stuck up. Well, all these full body folks are stuck up, but the Black full body folks, they are also stuck up. Most of them. They are very stuck up because a lot of them are dancers or they come in here and they make these damn virtual fraternities and sororities. Not to shade it, but for me, I went to college, I went to Black colleges with real fraternities and sororities. So when someone is so damn stuck up because they feel like this VR sorority or fraternity speaks for them…I don't understand it. It's crazy. But they exist. A lot of them also are dancers busy dancing for other clubs, or they're showcasing avatars, or dancing for people releasing avatars.
I'm also older. So I have a different perspective than a lot of people here anyway. The FBT community introduced me to different clubs, different people, different things. They taught me some shit. I just wish people weren't so goddamn stuck up. They feel like if you ain't got no PC and you ain't got full body, you broke as shit. That's not the case. Some people just don't want to spend that extra money. And for what? They don't see what the point is. There's other money to be…like people got bills, mortgages, car notes…people got kids! It ain't that deep. But it's cool.
The social VR FBT community has an amount of content and events that can be considered as 18+ or adults-only. With VRChat’s announcement that they are looking to implement age verification by a third-party within the year, what are your thoughts on age verification of some FBT events and VRChat in general?
Well, that's already a thing in the community to be honest. I'm curious to see how VRChat themselves are going to do that. Especially with the people that's already here. Right now there’s already age verification because there are kids everywhere. You're not going to escape kids, especially in a video game. They're everywhere. But clubs already implement age verification. When it comes to Discord servers of those communities and clubs, they have a different type of age verification where you submit ID and a ticket with certain things extracted and some type of picture verification.
I do not want to be in here with no kids. I don't want to be gaming and shit with kids. Hell no. Absolutely not. Nobody wants to deal with anybody's parents or getting their clubs or their communities reported because there's minors there. Don't nobody want to deal with that. When it comes to VRChat, I'm curious how they're gonna do it. People still lie about it. Young kids lie about their age all the time, just to get in spaces that they want to be in. So I don't know.
What recommendations do you have for anyone in social VR looking to get started with FBT and socializing?
I feel like when it comes to Black people, especially the older Black people, I would just say don't be scared to do it. Just do it. Just get you a headset. That's the main thing. I got a friend that I'm trying to talk into getting one. She's like, I ain't coming in there with you. I ain't coming in there with your crazy ass, and all them crazy people. I said, girl, you be kickin’ it at the crib. Just do it. You know what I'm saying? You'll never know until you try it. Just do it.
I would recommend a Quest outside of any other headset though. The Quest is definitely the way to go. I wouldn't do it alone, because of what people experience when they first get on VRChat by themselves: They go in a world like the Black Cat, and all they hear is N—ers. I don't recommend them going alone. That's one thing I will say. If you're Black and you want to check out the VR space, and if you know somebody who is Black with a Quest, go with that person. Try your best not to go alone. Be positive all the time. I came in here alone, but I was willing to learn, I was open-minded, and I was willing to learn and watch and see what was going on. Some people will jump in here and just get turned off immediately off rip when they hear shit like that, and then they'll just never come back. I get that, but you can't let that one thing ruin your whole experience because not all of social VR is like that.
Lastly, what else would you want to tell our audience about Black culture in VR? How can other Black social VR users get involved?
Um, the Black culture, it's not easy to find in social VR. I will say that. Like you got to know somebody who knows somebody. It's not easy to find because when we do find each other, we stick with each other and we travel in packs. It's still hard to find us because we've found our tribes and we've clique-ed up. Not saying being clique-ed up is the best, but that's how we protect our Black space and each other by staying with each other. We're a little hard to find, but we ain't that hard to find. Once you find one group, you'll meet other groups.
Don't come in here stuck up or, just not willing to talk and meet other Black people in this space. Or not willing to work with other Black people in this space. Just be open. We're in this space that exists, especially for the older people that are 30+. 30+, 40+, 50+ years old. We're definitely here, but we definitely stick to each other because we don't like all that extra foolishness. But we up in this bitch. In my issaServer on Discord we welcome all. We welcome all. Okay? We treat them all nice. We help them all out. You know what I'm saying? We're here. Just don't knock it until you try it. And if you're able to try it, do it.